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I will also try to transcribe the audio and link to the text when it is available. You can read the full transcript of the interview.
This chat with Subir covers some of the important projects and programmes in education in India over the past 20-30 years. The topics covered in this podcast are outlined below. The time location of each broad topic within the audio podcast is mentioned below, for those who may want to jump to a specific point in the podcast.
- 00:00:40 - Subir tells us a bit about his background and the work he has done in education.
- 00:01:30 - Why and how he chose to work in the area of education?
- His days at Eklavya, an outfit set up by Kishore Bharti and the Hoshangabad Science Teaching Programme.
- His time at the National Book Trust, setting up the National Centre for Children's Literature.
- 00:08:10 - His time as the Chief Consultant to the Govt of India on Quality Improvement and Teacher Training under the District Primary Education Programme (DPEP).
- The thinking behind starting the DPEP in 1994 and the goals of the DPEP.
- The survey of learning levels in India by the NCERT in 1994.
- How the survey showed that learning levels were very low in Kerala in 1994, even lower than Bihar and how this led Kerala to drastically change their philosophy, systems and processes of teaching and learning, which is one of the reasons why the learning levels in Kerala are high today.
- The achievement of the DPEP.
- 00:22:15 - The Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan (SSA).
- The thinking behind launching SSA, after the DPEP.
- 00:24:28 - Teacher Training
- What is good teaching?
- His role in developing ADEPTS - Advancement of Educational Performance through Teacher Support - Teacher performance standards for the MHRD in 2006-07.
- The role of the Centre and the States in teacher training.
- 00:28:12 - How the philosophy of teaching and learning has changed in India over the years
- Three broad stages: content-driven, objectives-driven, and process-driven teaching and learning.
- How and when the shift from content-driven, to objectives-driven, and then to process-driven teaching and learning occured in India.
- Minimum Levels of Learning (MLL).
- Continuos and Comprehensive Evaluation - CCE.
- The thinking behind removing detention of students under the RTE Act.
- 00:47:06 - The National Curricular Framework 2005 (NCF)
- The thinking behind creating the National Curricular Framework in 2005.
- The use of NCF by the States as a framework.
- Why the States don't want to use NCERT's textbooks.
- 00:54:31 - Age-appropriate curricula vs overambitious curricula
- Why children are often being compelled to learn things they can't really understand at their age.
- 00:57:26 - National level surveys of learning levels in India
- NCERT's surveys of learning and achievement levels.
- 00:58:35 - The value of Pratham's Annual Survey of Education Reports (ASER)
- Why the ASER reports have limited value.
- Two negative effects of the ASER reports.
- 01:04:20 - Teacher Accountability
- Teachers themselves should be enabled to monitor the learning levels in their classes.
- Why are only teachers being held accountable, but no one else higher up in the education system?
- The need for top-down accountability rather than bottom-up accountability.
- 01:08:35 - The relevance of PISA tests in India
- Why PISA tests may not be relevant for India at this time.
- The lack of a national vision in India for what kind of quality we want in our secondary school students, and what they ought to know by the time they leave school.
- The need to develop a vision for secondary school students and put it out in the public domain for debate - IGNUS-ERG is working on this.
